Video Card Ati 9600se or Geforce fx5200

[Trunks]

Hey this is my first post ever so a big hello to everyone.

Now I just graduated from highschool and I am buying my first computer. For the past 3 or 4 years I have been using my dads p3 500 system which is long since dated. Anyway I'm a pretty big gamer and a pretty big geek compared to my friends, however, I'm still a bit sketchy on some of the hardware. Heres the system I have lined up


AMD XP 2800+ BARTON BOX 0.13U CORE 333FSB 512K 2.083GHZ
ABIT NF7-M Motherboard AGP 8X N-Force 2, FSB 400 DUAL CH DDR, GEFORCE 4 MX, 5.1,OPT
512 MB 184 Pin DDR-333 CAS 2.5
Radeon™ 9600SE - 128MB DDR, DVI, TV OUT 8X AGP
Samsung 80 GB ATA 100 7200 RPM

Now my main question how is that video card and will I be better off with the

128 MB DDR GEFORCE FX5200 , 8X AGP TV OUT DX9 also offered

If anyones interested I'm planning to purchase from a local custom shop called G&G computers located at ggcomp.ca

Anyway I've love some input on those 2 cards, I realize there are way betetr cards outthere but again, I'm a student with limited cash. Any advice will be welcome:)

[fstroupe]

WHEW!!! Give me a minute to cool off after looking at those prices....ok, I'm better now.

After doing some quick searching, their prices are in line with other Canadian parts prices, and since they are local you won't have to pay shipping...

Here's my$.02.

Buy the 2500+ instead of the 2800+ and save 70 bucks. Take some of the savings and get the Zalman 6000 cooler. (see Shawn's excellent review elsewhere in OCIA) Overclock the 2500+ to 3200+. (we'll tell you how when you get the rig) Now, you can really be a geek, with an overclocked computer! Though...if you are like me, I don't know anyone that knows enough about computers to be impressed. :?

Take some of the remainder of your savings and order an OCIA t-shirt from Hackerthreads.com. :)

Buy the NF7-S instead of the NF7-M and save $9. The only difference between the two is the onboard graphics on the -M, and you're going to buy a video card anyway. (the NF7-S Version2 DOES run dual channel, though for some reason it is not advertised anywhere, even at Abit's site)

Since these guys are local, I would do one thing...to make absolutely sure that your board is a version 2. The 1.xx boards haven't been manufactured in over a year, but...

Anyway, look at the label that the serial number is on, it says what version the board is. The location of that label is shown at the bottom of this post.

You didn't mention which power supply you were planning...don't go less than the 350 watt.

Now to answer your original question, the video card. The 9600 is a scaled down version of a later generation of card. The 5200 DX9 is an improved version of an earlier generation card. Unless the 5200 is one of the couple of brands that have 128-bit configuration, (which I doubt, looking at the prices of the two cards) I personally would go with the 9600. Neither one of these is a great card, but a helluva lot better than what you've been using.

Hope this helps at least a little.

Frank

Location of serial #/version: NOTE...there is a green chip (that I covered up by my graphics) that says "NF7-S...

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v298/fstroupe/nf7-s.jpg

[fstroupe]

BTW, welcome to OCIA.

[jurtje]

BTWW, get the MOBILE xp 2500+, otherwise you'll be multiplier locked and won't be overclocking much.
This chip is awesome, it might be some bucks more exspensive, but it's well worth the money.

Let us know how it goes!

[Trunks]

You're right neither is a great card, and I know that. However I am a student with a student minimum wage job and a student with canadian money, I priced a 9800 card at futureshop and it was around 650 dollars. So you can see where I'm coming from.

As for overclocking I'm completely friggen clueless I've definitely heard of it, my friend bought a used computer that turned out to be overclocked. But I know I don't wanna buy a new machine and blow it up. I've read your guide on overclocking but I believe that confused me more.

[Alfonse]

You could save some money by NOT going to Future Shop.
An added bonus to that will be that buying things elsewhere, the people at the store will actually look you in the eye. Future Shop has some real BS policies about returns and refunds and warranties. Their staff, in my experience, and being on commission, aren't very knowledgeable when it comes to computer parts. "Wouldn't you rather get this lovely VAIO? It comes with a free memory stick!"

Where are you located?
You could always get your components off the net, or I'm sure there's some guy hooked up to a distributor selling parts out of his basement nearby. Those guys are everywhere.

[Trunks]

I'm in east coast Canada. I don't plan on buying my stuff from future shop I'm just giving the wonders of Canadian currency. Tigerdirect.ca seemed to have some good prices same with robotnik.ca. I'll consider. And as for my very first own system I don't need the biggest rig I just need something to play around with and occasionally do homework for college in september:P But as I mentioned above I know enough about computers that I know I don't want crap.

[Trunks]

BTW if I do get the 2800+ barton could I push that even farther then the 2500+? If I can I'm gonna go with it.

[Alfonse]

http://canadacomputers.com/
They have pretty good prices, and they're east coast.

The Mobile Barton is what you're looking for. (XP-M 2500+)
It'll easily do better than a 2800+. It will probably do better than a 3200+ at less than half the cost.

[fstroupe]

Brother, I understand the money situation. Believe me, I do. That's why I didn't beat you up over the choice of card. You do what you can.

The various Barton processors are supposedly just overclocked versions of the 2500+, and generally won't go faster than the 2500 will. I started to get the 2800 when I built my system, and was talked out of it, and now glad I was. I'm just trying to pass on the favor.

The prices at G&G are pretty close to Tigerdirect.ca. Any savings probably would be eaten up in shipping. And, as Alphonse said, you will be looking someone in the eye.

G&G didn't offer an XP Mobile chip. Actually, I didn't see one on TigerDirect.ca either, but didn't spend that much time looking.

Don't worry about being confused about overclocking, that's what this forum is here for. With the NF7-S, you can make the 2500 a 3200 with about 3 keystrokes. And you just made your $125 2500 a $329 3200! (which will make the video card perform that much better) With proper cooling, which the aforementioned Zalman is more than enough, it is just that easy. (when I built my rig, I didn't think I would be overclocking, either)

[Trunks]

Maybe I can try overclocking my girlfriends mothers computer (what I'm on right now) to see if I can figure it out lol that way I'm out no money...lol I'm evil.

As for the 2500 vs the 2800 I'll see what happens when I go to buy it. Would a fan controller help as well?

[Alfonse]

Dude! The reason they designate it a mobile chip is because it runs at lower voltage than its peers. That means it runs cooler at the same speeds. Then they leave the chip unlocked because they want the laptops to be able to scale back the frequency for yet more power savings.
That it runs at lower voltages and that it's unlocked are two massive advantages that the mobile has.
Buying a 2800 equates to paying more for less.

[KryoNexus]

yeh, definitely go with the mobile on this one. we'll be able to help you out with the overclocking venture. in fact, we do more of that on these forums than anything else.

[Beemer]

Xp 2500
Abit NF7-S
Zalman CPU cooler
Radeon 9600 se
I would go with a sata HD - the maxtor they offer doesn't have a bad price
I think you could probably get better ram for less money than G&G.
A gig of ram would be worth the money but its not necessary.

[fastedie]

Ok you want the 2500 bartone not the moble. http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=19-103-378
Run the 2500 with the stock fan and heatsink or the warrnt is void. Belive me I know this will work as its is talking right now on the net. Also I would go with ASUS "A7N8X" nForce2 Ultra 400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU and oc to 3200 or 2.2ghz Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200 http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=20-145-451
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=13-131-455
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=11-145-046
case and psu.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=14-102-331 vidio card.
It will be a 3200 Rock solid smoking game eater. lol I call mine THEROCK! Iam using a $38.00 gf4 440 card and it is the only bottle neck I have right now I want a 9800xt but they are still to high for my pockets.

ps I would stay away from SATA hd unless you know how to recover from your losed data they are a pain. Go with IDE hd.
ps this is just my 2 cents

[Alfonse]

Listen to this guy and you'll end up paying out the ass for brokerage and duty to get your stuff across the border, a cpu that is several degrees hotter that you can't properly OC, and one of the more ugly cases I've seen in a good while.
Mobile Barton's only come OEM, that's with no fan, so hook up a nice Thermalright cooler. SLK-900A or SP-97, some of the best coolers going, you won't be disappointed.
Lastly, buy your stuff inside Canada.

[fastedie]

A few degrees hotter so what.. it wont f***ing mealt.Till you hit 79C and it will run 2.33 GHZ I have mine at 2.2Ghz it was at 2.33. So dont lie to the kid. Yea the case is just that a dam case it will do the job, you want pretty you pay for pretty you need a case it will work $19.00 for case and psu. The stock hsf is fine for this processer. Hell it shouldnt get that hot in canada unless you have it right next to the stove.
mine is right at 40C 104 degrees F
I can live with that forever
well canada is a mail problem for him but they ship to the boarder for free.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=19-103-378

[KryoNexus]

a good debate so far. try to keep it clean though guys :roll:

[jurtje]

I don't think warranty is void, if you use a different heatsink, that's why they sell OEM processors. As Alfonse stated, the mobile is only sold OEM (not boxed) and definitely has a warranty.

I have a XP 3200+, but I would definitely buy a mobile chip if I had the chance. Too bad, they weren't out when I bought mine. :cry: The fact is, that the mobile chip is the most fun to play with, the easiest to overclock and the best speed / money ratio.

That memory that fastedie recommended is excellent, but very exspensive, for some one on a tight budget, corsair value ram is very good already and a lot cheaper. It will probably allow you to get up to 210 MHz at least.

The difference between the Abit board and the Asus board, is purely preferencial. Both are awesome boards.
I myself have the A7N8X-E and I'm luving it.

About the mailing, I think avoiding customs is always the best easiest and cheapest thing to do. So better order in canada.

[Trunks]

Take some of the savings and get the Zalman 6000 cooler. -Knutsaac

Hmm is that just some sort of nice fan or? Also how are Thermaltakes compared to that. I only ask cause they are cheaper.

[Beemer]

Those are heatsinks, and I believe they both come with fans (some heatsinks dont come with a fan). Heatsinks mount over your processor and pull heat out to be cooled by the fan. They provide an increased surface area to help disipate heat. Basically, they keep your processor cooler, which allows you to overclock further. Both companies make good heatsinks, I dont have much experience with them to know which is better, I guess it really depends on which model thermaltake your talking about.

[Trunks]

THERMALTAKE VOLCANO 7, COPPER BASE INSERTED AMD XP 2800+ Is what its called.

Throwing another video card into play as well The ATI Radeon 9600 XT

[Beemer]

Went out and looked around a bit, most of what I have seen is that the Zalman is very quiet but lacks a little in cooling compared to the thermaltake. I had a themal take - temps were pretty good but it was loud a crap. Anyone else have some feedback?

XT is a good card, probably the most bang for the buck along with the fx5900.

[Alfonse]

Thermaltake used to be a lot better. They've taken to not grinding the bases as much and using cheaper, louder fans.
I would recommend against Thermaltake products, or at least go for nothing less than the Volcano 10.
The Thermaltake Silent Boost is a bit of a joke, if you want something quiet and cheap, go with this:
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=11425&vpn=ACCS2L&manufacture=Arctic%20Cooling
It has a variable speed setting.
The Zalman copper(expensive) or aluminum/copper(not so expensive) is also a good bet for quiet cooling.
For air performance I still recommend Thermalright, though, the best of the best.

[KryoNexus]

yeh, agreed. i would definitely spend the extra couple dollars on a thermalright. it will be a worthwile investment.

[Beemer]

Yeah, thermalright is my fav, I think of it as an insurance policy for my processor. :wink:

[undergroundtech]

Throwing another video card into play as well The ATI Radeon 9600 XT

I think thats the way to go if you gots the $$$, you will thank yourself later.

The more you can afford, the longer you can go before you need to upgrade your system again. :wink:

[fstroupe]

I suggested the Zalman as it was one of the few choices at G&G, the others being the Silent Boost, the Zalman 7000, and the Volcano 7. I didn't see the 7000 farther down the list at the time.

Of the three, the 7000 probably is the best value, as it comes with a fan controller. I've never read a review on it while being tested on a Barton, but I assume that it performs at least as well as the 6000.

Actually, the Silent Boost is not that bad, mine keeps my 2500 @ 2.3gHz always at sub 50C temps (35C-38C idle and 45C-48C after playing BFV for an hour, depending on ambient room temp), and is by far the quietest fan in my case...running at 3400rpm, even while the others are at 1100-1200rpms....though I do wish I had a Thermalright. :( Though, without a fan, at twice the price of the Silent Boost, I still can't justify it. :cry:

The 9600XT is a fairly nice card, you should be able to play anything out there today. (I had to adjust my AGP aperture to 128 for BFV...plays like a dream now)

[Trunks]

How do you ajust AGP aperture?

[undergroundtech]

How do you ajust AGP aperture?

It should be in your bios, most newer boards are usually set at 64 by default.

[silenze]

Well I jumped in late in the thread...

My 2 cents: Knutsaac is right -- when considering the videocards, keep in mind that the FX5200 only has the original CineFX, not CineFX 2.0 like the 5700 and up do. (the 9600 se has pixel shader 2..)

[Trunks]

I think I'm going with the 9600 xt even though its super expensive

[Beemer]

I think it is a good idea, you would kick yourself later on when you couldnt play some games.....

[fstroupe]

How do you ajust AGP aperture?

On the NF7-S its in the BIOS under "Advanced Chipset Features".

I guess it is a debatable thing, I've seen posts that say don't bother, others recommend do it. I know that Battlefield Vietnam ran pretty crappy on my 9600 Pro until I changed it.